EPISODE SIX : AN IRISH CHRISTMAS

HO HO HO, NOLLAIG SHONA DUIT ! 

Chris and Spence have donned their red (or black) Santa suits to tuck into more than just a minced pie for Irish Gothic’s first Christmas special. We’re covering everything from Ireland’s festive ‘devil bird’, to the big man himself - Saint Nicholas. Listen in to hear toe-curling tales, even scarier than having your in-laws over for turkey. However you celebrate at this time of year, good tidings to all and we’ll be back in the New Year!

The Irish Gothic Podcast explores the origins of Irish Folk tales. myths and legends in all their dark, fantastical glory and how these vivid yarns continue to resonate across the world to this very day. 

Join Hosts Chris Patterson and Spence Wright as they fuse their love for all thing's horror with a wellspring of Irish lore. 

From the terrifying figure of the Dullahan to the origins of Halloween itself, if it’s a yarn you’re after, pull up a chair and let ‘Irish Gothic’ fill your ears. 

Hosts: Chris Patterson & Spence Wright 

Producer: Rebecca Alcorn 

Production Company: Causeway Pictures 

Bibliography: 

Learn more about Ireland at Christmas here ! 

https://www.shamrockgift.com/blog/christmas-folklore-ireland/?srsltid=AfmBOoqmccVLUspvHewEi_YWvs4gDo6E4ng5zGhO26NdlK7w_YdMghWa

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Checkout our other podcast - Hostage to the Devil, real life stories of exorcism and possession. Wherever you get your podcasts.

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Transcript

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0:17

I know all the folks round these arts and parts. Can't say I know you. Leastways. Not yet. But I dare say I know what you'll be wanting. Some of the crack, maybe. How we yarn with your sup, is it? No harm in that. Come on over. Warm yourself, hmm? I'll warn you though. If it's the old Begara and Blarney shenanigans you're after, you'll not hear them from me. Well, if such, like, pleases you, you sit on. I'll fill your ears. And see what story is meant for you. On this dark old night.

chris-patterson_2_10-23-2024_181531 1:22

I'm Chris

spencey-guest437_2_10-23-2024_181541 1:23

I'm Spence

chris-patterson_2_10-23-2024_181531 1:24

And this is the Irish Gothic Podcast.

chris-patterson_2_12-04-2024_193420 1:35

It's Christmas! How you doing, Spence?

spence_2_12-04-2024_193420 1:39

ho, Chris, I'm doing very well, sir. Looking forward to, doing very little over Christmas.

chris-patterson_2_12-04-2024_193420 1:44

I mean, I think it'll just rain this Christmas. We don't get a white Christmas, we get a shade Christmas.

spence_2_12-04-2024_193420 1:51

Just like all the ones we had before.

chris-patterson_2_12-04-2024_193420 1:52

yeah. Have you got all your, presents in?

spence_2_12-04-2024_193420 1:57

Pretty much organised, buddy. Yes, we actually go to my sister in law's for Christmas dinner. So that takes a little bit of the hassle out of it, you know.

chris-patterson_2_12-04-2024_193420 2:03

it takes a bit of the pressure off.

spence_2_12-04-2024_193420 2:05

So Boxing Day would be our day. We don't leave the house. I just flop around the house, you know.

chris-patterson_2_12-04-2024_193420 2:10

Oh, Boxing Day? You mean St. Stephen's Day? Or is there another name for it there?

spence_2_12-04-2024_193420 2:14

ha ha ha ha ha ha Or world famous hooks. Yeah, well, there is. Fate would have it, Chris, there is actually a rather peculiar, maybe somewhat unsettling tradition called Ren Day.

chris-patterson_2_12-04-2024_193420 2:26

Is that Ren? Andre is in the bird.

spence_2_12-04-2024_193420 2:28

The Birds, Yep, and it takes place in Ireland, specifically Ireland. December 26th as you say, Stephens and Stevens Day, Boxing Day. It involves capturing a fake rin, a fake bird. And placing it on the top of a pole. Now, days gone by and this would of actually been a real bird. Rean's corpse stuck on a pole and paraded through the

chris-patterson_2_12-04-2024_193420 2:48

but Peta stepped in

spence_2_12-04-2024_193420 2:50

Helistan?

chris-patterson_2_12-04-2024_193420 2:51

You're not doing not the real animals anymore.

spence_2_12-04-2024_193420 2:55

Very So the origins of Where do we start? You know because it sounds so bizarre. Box and dable and chocolate. I was There

chris-patterson_2_12-04-2024_193420 3:03

res, I mean, Why not a pigeon?

spence_2_12-04-2024_193420 3:07

is some special significance the Rean. Sympathize with, and The ancient druids would have believed that they were like intermediaries between Orrworld and, the world of the dead. Druids would watch how wrens flew and by that way, they would then try to protect the future. So they've had a kind of a special place There's lots of like specific stories around them which might be why people stick 'em on a pole. on Boxing Day.

chris-patterson_2_12-04-2024_193420 3:42

Our rains, the birds that fly in unison. You get hundreds of them and they fly. I mean, it's one of the bridges in Belfast that has all these, maybe that's starlings. Yeah, I'm thinking of starlings. Sorry, I

spence_2_12-04-2024_193420 3:54

John could be sterlings. What's that? But what's that lovely word for when they do that? Is it murmuring?

chris-patterson_2_12-04-2024_193420 4:00

yes, I think it is. And

spence_2_12-04-2024_193420 4:02

Yeah.

chris-patterson_2_12-04-2024_193420 4:03

and sort of sequence. But anyway, we're off on a different bird here.

spence_2_12-04-2024_193420 4:06

So yeah.

chris-patterson_2_12-04-2024_193420 4:07

ornithology at its best.

spence_2_12-04-2024_193420 4:09

Yeah,

chris-patterson_2_12-04-2024_193420 4:09

an ornithology is the right word, isn't it? That's bird watching.

spence_2_12-04-2024_193420 4:13

I do believe so.

chris-patterson_2_12-04-2024_193420 4:14

welcome to the ornithology podcast.

spence_2_12-04-2024_193420 4:24

As I say, there's different theories, man, so the Wren, we know the Wren's special for mythological reasons, but there's also specific stories, and not just Irish stories, but certainly one Irish story is that the Irish locals, back in, I don't know, penal times, were planning to ambush some sleeping British soldiers, and just as they were about to attack, the Wren started to peck the soldiers drums. That woke the soldiers up, and the attack was thwarted. So the wren, then, was known as a bit of a treacherous tricksome bird and became known as, the Devil's Bird.

chris-patterson_2_12-04-2024_193420 4:56

Oh, the devil's bird. That's a quire nickname. There's other teals that recount that like on St. Stephens Day, the bird betrayed other Irish soldiers by alerting Vikings to their presence with loud song and then another 'cause these rains can't seem to shut up that Rand's songs revealed since Steven's hiding place leading for. Leading to his being stoned to death.

spence_2_12-04-2024_193420 5:19

Goodness, yeah, so actually responsible for the death of a saint,

chris-patterson_2_12-04-2024_193420 5:22

Yeah, well, I mean, here we go, the devil's bird.

spence_2_12-04-2024_193420 5:25

the Devil's Bird. There's another connection with Irish mythology as well. the, goddess of the other world, Clina. she used to suggest men and sea maybe a little bit kelpie esque there, the member then drown, a protective charm could destroy her, and forced her to turn into a wr and as punishment for her misdeeds, she was doomed. Become a wr every Christmas and die by human hand on rain day. So look somewhere in the midst of all that, this ceremony, this. Past time, this tradition, was born of sticking a wreath on a pole and parading it through villages and to houses on Boxing Day. I've

chris-patterson_2_12-04-2024_193420 6:13

Well, I guess it's from all that sort of rich tapestry of myth and legend that, rain days, and indeed the rain boys, grew. I mean, this unruly group of male children would be sent down to hunt for a rain, disguising themselves blacking their faces. and then tying the dead bird to a holly bush before breeding to various households in their village. I mean, that all sounds very, most definitely Celtic, but it's sort of Wicker Man, you know, sort of scenario there.

spence_2_12-04-2024_193420 6:50

Krampus ceremonies.

chris-patterson_2_12-04-2024_193420 6:51

they're fantastic

spence_2_12-04-2024_193420 6:52

Oh my,

chris-patterson_2_12-04-2024_193420 6:53

them

spence_2_12-04-2024_193420 6:53

they are unbelievable, folks. If you get a chance, you know, you should go. Not for the faint of heart, I mean, but it's incredible, the detail, and it's like something out of a movie. And this is up there, Chris, isn't it? It's got that kind of Wicker Man macabre feel.

chris-patterson_2_12-04-2024_193420 7:09

I mean, the Krampus stuff that you're talking about, I think it's sort of Eastern Europe and they prayed. and this is not dissimilar, to what these boys did. I mean, they would sing and play music at the doors and beg for money, often being invited in like for a few, a few bevies, eventually they'd, bury the bird with the coins to ward off the bad luck. However, Those who weren't generous risked having the bird buried at their property, bringing a full year of misfortune.

spence_2_12-04-2024_193420 7:36

doesn't it? You know, that kind of Halloween knocking on the doors.

chris-patterson_2_12-04-2024_193420 7:40

it, can I get a penny for the guy and any way to sort of beg money out of people because I mean they're going to knock on your door and they have a dead bird tied to a holly bush. I mean, you know, these days, if you look down your ring camera and saw that you'd be phoning the police.

spence_2_12-04-2024_193420 7:56

Well, the tradition As strong as it was, it's maybe not as strong now, but there are some folks who have documented what it was like there's a lady from Limerick who recalled her childhood in the fifties and the sixties. And I'm quoting this lady now, when she talked about the Renn boys coming to their houses, she said, we were never ready for them. And they always arrived like an invasion from an outside world. You know, after all the excitement and hustle and bustle of Christmas, these young gangs of boys and young men, that was never girls, always young boys and men, Chris, and they would clatter up the yard on St Stephen's Day and the whole house would be caught off guard and the parents would adjust and fitter and fluster about and they would be delighted at the spectacle, but this lady says, as children, we were overawed, we were shy, but we were mostly afraid. It's a long way, I suppose, from that kind of cosy Christmas scene when these rainboys came a calling. this is maybe down in Limerick, and it's said that their sudden appearance, even now, she remembers how much of a shock it was, and the flurry of excitement it caused when these rainboys came calling.

chris-patterson_2_12-04-2024_193420 9:00

I mean, Um, even when you think about today, you know, as we obviously don't have rain boys running about, but it's still celebrated in terms of, you know, probably just before Christmas where children go caroling sort of from door to door. Sometimes people get dressed up in older clothes, Victorian maybe, or put coal in their faces. Frowned upon these days to an extent, but more for fun than to ward off bad luck.

spence_2_12-04-2024_193420 9:26

Yeah, it's funny you talk about the, you know, black and the faces. I remember a tradition we had as a kid on New Year's Eve. It ties into those great bonds we have with Scotland. The first footing, I

chris-patterson_2_12-04-2024_193420 9:37

No, I haven't heard of this one.

spence_2_12-04-2024_193420 9:38

so the tradition is, it's a Scottish tradition. I don't know where my mum and dad call it from, you know, turns out it was relevant to us, but I suppose it may be an Ulster Scots thing. But whoever was the dark haired child in the house, or dark haired person in the house, was to Step outside the house at midnight, with rubbed coal on their cheeks, knock on the door with a piece of coal, and you were the first person to enter the house on New Year's Eve, and I was the only dark haired person in the house, so I got to freeze me backside off as a child, in the street, with a bit of coal.

chris-patterson_2_12-04-2024_193420 10:10

I have to admit, I've never, I've never heard that before, but it does, it does chime in with all this bringing yourself good luck. And a lot of these sort of pre eds and things were for good harvest or to survive the winter.

spence_2_12-04-2024_193420 10:22

Yep, and as much as these traditions have sadly died away, or as you say they've evolved, maybe more than died away, there are still counties across Ireland where there are wren parades, much more sanitised, you know, no real birds injured in any way, so counties Kerry, counties Clare, Dublin, I think Dingle as well has a big procession for the wren boys to pay homage to that tradition, that Irish tradition.

chris-patterson_2_12-04-2024_193420 11:06

Let me take you back maybe two days before that to Christmas Eve and we all know what happens on Christmas Eve. Our next little segment is about the big man himself. Santa Claus. What links the frozen peaks of the North Pole to the rolling green hills of Ireland, apart from the rain and the cold and possible snow?

spence_2_12-04-2024_193420 11:27

I couldn't, honestly Chris, when you told me this, I couldn't, I honestly thought you were winding me up. You know, a story so perfect, magic, history, myth, and with a wee bit of Christmas magic. do you know what, I'm going to have to let you say it,

chris-patterson_2_12-04-2024_193420 11:38

You can take this to the bank. Santa Claus is buried in Ireland.

spence_2_12-04-2024_193420 11:44

I think that's worth saying again, Chris, because I'm sure people are going, I didn't hear him correctly there. I'm sure he just said Santa Claus is buried in Ireland.

chris-patterson_2_12-04-2024_193420 11:50

Santa Claus, Saint Nick, whatever you want to call him. He's buried in Ireland. And I know there's probably a question mark going through your head right now, but, you know, let us explain.

spence_2_12-04-2024_193420 12:08

So, the story goes that before he became that, jolly rotund figure we all love sliding down the chimney with presents and gifts. Well, I mean, most folks know that Santa Claus was based on Saint Nicholas, a 4th century Christian bishop from Myra, and what I think is Turkey, yeah?

chris-patterson_2_12-04-2024_193420 12:26

yeah, Turkey, a sort of red suited figure. He actually, I think, wore black.

spence_2_12-04-2024_193420 12:30

Oh,

chris-patterson_2_12-04-2024_193420 12:30

I think the red suit came from Coca Cola in the 1920s.

spence_2_12-04-2024_193420 12:35

you're joking.

chris-patterson_2_12-04-2024_193420 12:36

no, the real guy he wore black,

spence_2_12-04-2024_193420 12:39

like Johnny Cash.

chris-patterson_2_12-04-2024_193420 12:39

like Johnny Cash, the man in black as he strolled around Turkey. I mean, one of the reasons that Santa has that red and white suit is because Coke found it difficult selling its product during the winter. Because, of course, in the summer you're thirsty and all that. In the winter, of course, people want hot drinks. They don't want tins of Coke or bottles of Coke. So they had to come up with an idea and the idea they came up with was. Santa Claus, but in a red and white suit, which obviously was the coke colors and at Christmas holidays are common. Santa's coming on and you still see it today with the coke lorry that travels around the country.

spence_2_12-04-2024_193420 13:19

Ha ha! I did not know that about the coke. Well, I didn't know he was buried in Ireland either, to be fair. Saint Nicholas as in the saint, his kindness, his generosity, as you say, Chris, it was the stuff of legend. It inspired Sinterklaas, which is a Dutch tradition, and you can see how that morphed and became Santa Claus. And then after his death on December 6th, 343 AD, his remains were interred in Myra, in Turkey. So, how do you got the Ireland cross?

chris-patterson_2_12-04-2024_193420 13:47

Well, here we go. He was obviously in Turkey on his holidays. No, he was in Turkey interred and in the 12th century the relics or the bones of Saint Nicholas were reportedly stolen during the Crusades and transferred to Italy. But here's where Ireland enters the narrative. According to one of the lesser known but fiercely debated tales, some of his remains were spirited away by French knights and bought to Ireland. The medieval village of Newton's Sharepoint, County

spence_2_12-04-2024_193420 14:25

Wow, wow. Well, look, you know, there's definitely a basis for Crusaders and, French knights, you know, they loved a bit of, bone plundering and a bit of, uh, rampaging and,

chris-patterson_2_12-04-2024_193420 14:36

everything that, everything that wasn't tied down.

spence_2_12-04-2024_193420 14:39

Why not? Those would have been sought after. relics remains of great significance and there's precedent for things get scattered all around the world. We know about debate about the great marbles in the London Museum these things happen, much later in history.

chris-patterson_2_12-04-2024_193420 14:54

But also the cup of

spence_2_12-04-2024_193420 14:55

Yeah,

chris-patterson_2_12-04-2024_193420 14:57

know, that was supposedly taken around the world by, knights who had come across it during the Crusades of Templars and bought it back and decided to hide it. And is it in Ireland? Is it in England? Is it in Scotland? I guess we might find out further down the line in another episode. But, uh, back to the big man.

spence_2_12-04-2024_193420 15:19

well they say that those knights then, they erected a very modest tomb for Saint Nicholas on the grounds of what is now a ruined church in Kilkemmy. And local lore there insists that this grave is marked with a slab and on that slab there's a cleric and two crusaders and none other than that of Saint Nicholas. So, they believe it's there, it's marked in Kilkemmy.

chris-patterson_2_12-04-2024_193420 15:41

Well, it said that the knights that bought the relics to Ireland bought them because they wanted to protect them from the chaos of the war in Europe. Ireland, not only for its remoteness, but also for its reputation of the land of saints and scholars. A heaven for sacred treasures. Just like we were saying there about the Holy Grail and things like that. It was definitely a place that attracted the spiritual.

spence_2_12-04-2024_193420 16:07

Yep, and I suppose with all these stories, Chris. You just want them to be true, you know, and certainly scholars and historians have certainly debated this and they've said Skeptics who want to steal Santa from the Irish have argued that his remains are all accounted for in Italy and where they are venerated to this day. Others say no, there's some in Venice Which claims the house of his relics, but you know, we do know that the Crusades were chaotic times relics were divided They were traded, they were stolen. It's not implausible Especially in Ireland, you know, this is a land where myth and history does fuse together. And if there's no proof to say otherwise, I'm happy to take it.

chris-patterson_2_12-04-2024_193420 16:53

Factor Folklore, the idea that Santa Claus could be buried right here on the island of Ireland Kilkenny. For Ireland. It's just another chapter in its rich myths and legends. This is, after all, the land of leprechauns, banshees, and tales of Tír na nÓg. importantly, it highlights Ireland's role as keeper of ancient stories. A sanctuary the sacred relics, and a place where the impossible feels tantalisingly within reach. So, I could believe it.

spence_2_12-04-2024_193420 17:26

You're on the nice list.

chris-patterson_2_12-04-2024_193420 17:27

I would hope so. I would

spence_2_12-04-2024_193420 17:29

If you don't believe, you're not on the nice list.

chris-patterson_2_12-04-2024_193420 17:32

So, I mean, I, you know It comes down to the spirit of St. Nicholas, you know, whether St. Nicholas lies in the rolling hills of Kilkenny, The crypts Of Bari in Italy are somewhere entirely different. His legacy transcends geography. He's an embodiment of generosity, kindness and simple yet profound joy of giving. I mean, that's what we do at Christmas. We give. People that we love and people that we don't love, you know, gifts and love and, it all comes back to this legend, I suppose, of this one man.

spence_2_12-04-2024_193420 18:13

Beautifully put, Chris. I didn't realise you were such a, a little Christmas elf at heart, behind that cool, tough, Belfast exterior.

chris-patterson_2_12-04-2024_193420 18:23

Well, here, have you ever been to Newton? Do you have a point?

spence_2_12-04-2024_193420 18:26

No, but I tell you what, I'd love to go. I mean, it sounds, it just sounds magical. I mean I haven't thought of even reading up on it since we talked about doing a story, you know? So I thank anyone who does go, and we should put it on our list, Chris. Once I get Um it sounds like a challenge to step back in time. You know, the village itself sounds like it's sort of stood still in time.

chris-patterson_2_12-04-2024_193420 18:43

the podcast on the road.

spence_2_12-04-2024_193420 18:45

I think it's going to have a bit of a quiet beauty. It'll have a lot of historical intrigue. Yeah, I feel like a little Irish Gothic pilgrimage, and if we do we'll definitely record there for folks to soak up some of the atmosphere and take some photos.

chris-patterson_2_12-04-2024_193420 18:59

Well, one day we might take a pilgrimage, but of course after your St. Patrick's pilgrimage, I wouldn't like to interrupt that. well, I guess that's Christmas spent. So, let's hope that our listeners out there enjoy their Christmas. And, we're going to take some time off over these couple of weeks. There will be some, new stuff common, which is the Irish Gothic Bites, little. two to five minute stories that Spence and I have put together just to take you through, but we'll be back with the full podcast, probably the beginning of February. The bait should hold you over, but we're really looking forward to the next batch of. Big podcasts, aren't we?

spence_2_12-04-2024_193420 19:35

Oh, absolutely. Yes. And thanks for joining us folks this year and just a very happy, healthy, Merry Christmas to you and all of yours from all of us here on the Irish Gothic team, Rebecca, Chris and myself.

chris-patterson_2_12-04-2024_193420 19:46

And if you want to help us, you can give us five stars wherever you listen to your podcasts. And you can also listen to the podcasts over on YouTube. Happy Christmas and we'll see you in the new year.

20:07

Looks like your story has found you. I wish It were another. But what's meant for you, won't go by you. I'm sorry. Ach, now. No need to look so scared, eh? Enjoy the fire. Have a sop. Sure. Is it all just Irish Gothic? All just Irish Gothic.

chris-patterson_10_10-17-2024_205438 20:49

You can find us at iris gothic pod on Instagram or X, or if you want to support us, please buy us a coffee

spence_9_10-17-2024_205215 20:57

and look, while you're there, give us a follow to keep up with all things in the Irish Gothic Podcast. Send us any Irish myths, legends, stories that you'd like us to delve into next.

chris-patterson_10_10-23-2024_190653 21:06

The Irish Gothic Podcast was brought to you by Causeway Pictures. It's hosted by Chris Patterson and Spence Wright. And was produced by Rebecca Alcorn. All rights reserved.

chris-patterson_10_10-17-2024_205438 21:21

Check out our other podcast, Hostage to the Devil, which delves into the dark world of possession and exorcism. You can get it wherever you get your podcasts.